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          DETAILED REPORT 

At the ARES Forum, there were sessions for each of the stakeholder groups: employers, employees, professional associations, regulators and educators, followed by summary discussion and the development of a Statement of Intent and Agreed Actions.. In each stakeholder session, speakers highlighted the main points from their papers which had been made available in advance of the Forum.

This report was developed as a means of sharing the discussions during the Forum with the many interested professionals who could not be invited to be present. (There were nearly 60 participants which was close to the limit for an effective discussion.)

The report seeks to complement the structured overview and summary of outcomes provided in the Facilitator’s Summary. It is based on a paraphrased record of proceedings made by a professional minute taker. That record has been edited and the contents rearranged under the points for each stakeholders’ session from the Facilitator’s Summary.

A number of issues were discussed but were not included in the Facilitator’s Summary of key issues from each stakeholders’ session. These appear at the end of each section under the heading ‘Additional issues’. A new paragraph indicates a new speaker. Where speakers covered more than one issue in a single contribution their comments have sometimes been given under both issues. 

The organization of the report is intended to provide a structure to make a semi-verbatim record of a free-ranging debate comprehensible. It should, however, be kept in mind that the report deliberately seeks to give a sense of the complex and lively conversation which took place at the Forum. Editing has been limited consistent with this goal.

 SPEAKERS 

Kathryn Dan - Council of Federal, State and Territory Archives (COFSTA) 

Michael Piggott - University of Melbourne 

Gail Murphy Information Enterprises Australia.

Issues identified in the Facilitator’s Summary

1. Employers want to be involved in discussions about course content and want to be involved in consultations with educators.

A representative described her involvement in a university convened focus group seeking to establish what qualifications and experience employers are looking for. The focus group includes representatives from the government, private and not-for-profit sectors. Do they want people with higher education qualifications, information management skills, including advanced RM skills? Generally they are looking for people with those qualities AND who can also do business analysis, organisational analysis, can look at information risk, recordkeeping structures for corporate government requirements, etc. That is people with well rounded degrees that include business based skills. They are also interested in course content, and reviewing bachelors, post graduate and masters courses. 

2. The need to market the profession to employers.  It became clear that many employers and potential employers don’t know what their real recordkeeping requirements are or what a professional recordkeeper can offer them. As a result they have no understanding of the need for qualified recordkeepers.   

The importance of addressing employers’ awareness of what they want and expect when recruiting recordkeepers was stressed.

Perhaps the issue of whether an employer wants a generalist or a specialist is the result of the fact that in the private sector they are not quite sure what they want.  There is a lack of comprehension of the importance of records administration in the private sector and lack of a clear idea of what they need. She saw an opportunity for professional bodies to educate the private sector as to what they need or what is available before educating the employees. 

There are a lot of employers who do not know what they need. She noted a WA advertisement asking for someone to be employed under an out of date Library Act. 

In terms of employers not knowing what they need, one representative felt it was partly true.

Indicated that Commonwealth agencies do not necessarily understand what they need because they do not understand the positions, and this makes a huge challenge to implementing changes.

Stressed the possible view on one side that ‘it is their [the employers’] fault and if only they were better everything would be okay.’ 

The issue of concern is around general communication about what people do.  He felt people in directorships or CEO’s do not understand what responsibilities are required when talking about recordkeeping. There is a marketing of the profession in such a way that when talking about recordkeeping one is not talking about education of RM people, but of directors and CEOs who have those duties in their duty statements – it is an educational process.

Worked for three years in a small archives area and from her experience of three organisations which employed her as an archivist – and only one had employed an archivist before – all were surprised they had someone young and female but also someone quite visible within the organisation who took an interest in the current records.  They had apparently expected a male.  She said training in the post graduate degree gave her an insight into what the job was and educated her employers in what an archivist is.

There are no records managers in the ACT government and there are only three positions which will look after records, and all have gone into facilities management, fleet management, and corporate finance.  Until agencies get an understanding [of records management], there will be no understanding of the value of recordkeepers. 

Noted in NSW the public sector has a good understanding of what a RM program is and what is required, and they are confident there are more vacancies or positions in RM than people applying for them. Most leaving school do not even know there is such a thing as RM as a career.  He referred to vacancies increasing and the number of people applying declining.

Most employers see the need for strategic level recordkeeping positions. There used to be positions like CIOs (Chief Information Officers) coming out regularly, but they were never recognised as recordkeeping roles. The challenge is to make the links with recordkeeping.  He said he had seen the numbers of CIOs diminish because the positions took more of an IT focus than information focus.  The strategic approach for the recordkeeping profession is to explain to employers the links between risk management and recordkeeping to encourage them to see that there is a strategic role for recordkeeping in their organisations. 

An issue related to the professional and para-professional distinction is the existence of two peak professional bodies representing a single industry. What sort of message is this sending to employers?

Return to Exploiting ARES.

3. Employers want people with a range of skills and qualifications: generalist, interpersonal and organisational skills as well as recordkeeping ones.  There was a range of views about who is responsible for providing these skills and where they are best obtained.

At Curtin the coverage of courses includes analysis about risk management etc and when students come out all they need is experience.

Because there are not a lot of large private sector employers to grow the skills most records technicians have to leave the business to become the ‘corporate executive’. They cannot grow the skill through the organisations, through the chain of command. 

Has seen some structural amalgamation of disparate information disciplines whether archives, records, IT, customer service management, WWW content management, or library services manager, and a successful movement of people in lower levels moving sideways and being cross-trained across disciplines and moving upwards such as in some larger departments in the NT and local government.

In New Zealand if one wants to move into strategic level positions the requirement is for  post employment experience and post experience qualifications, be they with a recordkeeping focus, or such as a masters of information type qualification.  One cannot continue to rely upon one’s pre-employment qualifications. 

What has happened to core content such as arrangement and description, appraisal, sentencing?  Courses today are trying to please everybody at the expense of more basic information.

Curtin University still included basic skills. 

Felt the NAA was happy with the skill level of graduates from courses, but that it boiled down to probably selecting someone without records/archives qualifications if they performed better in the recruitment process than an applicant with those qualifications. They will then probably do additional training with the employer.

 4. There is a difference between the requirements of large government employers, who are willing to provide on the job training and small and private employers who want experienced staff able to do the job immediately.  Where only one recordkeeper is employed in an organisation that person will not in the normal course of events be able to access any suitable on the job training.

Smaller organisations want a generalist and larger are looking for a specialist

Clients are looking in the main for generalists – people well rounded in RM experience (which is about 80% of placements) but there are also requests for specialists who can put a retention and disposal package together, and who have classification and indexing skills, but in the main requests are for people with well-rounded general experience.

Larger organisations have the luxury of taking generalists who may not have professional qualifications and then train them. Mining companies, for instance, may have someone who has records, library, knowledge management and need at the end of the day someone who has practical experience such as in privacy legislation, risk management, corporate governance.  If a person has a qualification, that is a bonus. Smaller organisations do not have that luxury. The trend is that employers want more qualifications, skills and experience in one person.

COFSTA was looking for generalists but that most institutions still want flexibility in staff and the range of what employers are asking people to do requires a broad range of skills such as IT, analysis, conceptual and research work, but they might be on a reference desk and so need both.

In the private sector area where she works the employers know precisely what they want, it’s just that they want so much. They expect one to be an archivist as well as being able to advise on current RM, a curator of collections, able to do exhibitions, etc.

Noted the survey of Recordkeeping advertisements in WA showed that employers are not asking length of experience but types of experience – 97.5%. 

The National Archives employs generalists who do not have recordkeeping qualifications and supports them to undertake training. So, it is getting generalists.  

The trend is that employers want more qualifications, skills and experience in one person.

5. Is there a need for a distinctly recognised para-professional stream in the profession?  There were opposing views on this question but in later discussion there was agreement that this was not a suitable approach for the profession.

ALIA has para professional and professional sectors. Such an approach could link to mandatory qualifications.

Likes the idea of para professionals in archives.  The distinction has tended to be that Records Managers gain their qualifications in the VET sector, not in higher education. 

Endorsed the split between professional and para professional. She saw the need to separate between those who go on a job and carry out specific functions, where there will always be a need, and those who understand social responsibility at a higher level.  An apprenticeship or a TAFE type qualification can move to that.  At a university one needs to have a balance between the knowledge of the theory, literature of your field etc. to have a professional view.

ALIA over the last eighteen months has explored many of the same issues, and the exercise has reinforced the need for professional and technician schemes.  Responses to their work indicate that there are two definite career paths in the area, and that there is a need for a professional stream and a technician scheme.

Edith Cowan runs a course for library technicians. Some technicians at Edith Cowan are doing an undergraduate degree which caused concern in the profession as to how one differentiates between the library technician with a degree and a librarian.  The profession needs to be clear about what career paths are available for graduates at the various levels and for those who have a number of qualifications. 

Noted the complicating factor of the theoretical shift in the last ten years to continuum thinking where there is no division any more.  She said this was reflected in competency standards and courses presented.

Expressed a concern that such a distinction would result in saying one person fits in one pigeon hole and another person in another pigeon hole.  She felt employers were quite capable of deciding whether one is a technician or a strategist and felt the industry was not big enough to split between the technician and professional.

Is looking forward to the time when the interface between higher level VET qualifications and higher education qualifications are perceived by the AQF to be equivalent.

A related issue is the existence of two peak professional bodies representing a single industry. What sort of message is this sending to employers?

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1. How does one get practical as well as theoretical and conceptual skills?

Why can’t courses involve more practical experience modules?

Students have an option of going to New Norcia living in the monastery for a week with hands-on work, and continue it through the semester.  In every unit of hers there is some kind of practical work as well as a three week prac in the first year and a three week prac in the third year.  

Return to Exploiting ARES.

2. Is distance education second best, and if it is what should be done about it?

Felt distance education was seen as a first choice by a lot of people.  

From a local government point of view quite a lot of problems can occur with distance education if one is not motivated and one does not have student interaction. 

Noted that distance education courses require students to do a two by two week practical placement.  However, they often get turned down as employers want somebody already going to be useful and able to do something for them, and that it is a two-way process.  With distance education, students don’t just write essays at home but are forced to talk to others and participate in listservs, for instance.

Referred to the problems one can have with having to interact with other students who were not interested, and that it can be a waste of time to do so. With distance education, she said she put the time in when it suited her and was not forced to listen to inane eighteen year-olds talking about their boyfriends, for instance.  She said she wants what she is doing to be relevant to her work now, and what she is doing in the Edith Cowan course comes back daily to what she has to do in her job.

 Has done distance education for six years, and it suited her, but that the practical side is an issue. She felt there should be more practical hands-on experience.

The main driver in distance education for her was that her agency didn’t see skills as relevant to the organisation and refused to give study leave at the time.  

3. Is there or should there be a connection between in-house training provision and other training providers?

The notion of an apprenticeship is good. Cadetships for archivists have been developed by a previous employer and that was very useful.  

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4. Applicants with desired qualifications and experience are not there, or are not responding to advertisements.  Are employers crying out for qualified and experienced recordkeepers?  Are employers happy with the skill level of people who come out of the courses, and can they get them?

From experience on State Government job panels for RM and records clerks, when looking at applicants that go for the jobs, some advertisements require professional qualifications but do not often get them applying. He has had positions paying up to $70,000 or $80,000 a year but only gets one or two applicants with only one or two years in RM and specialist experience, but persons having a broad range of skills are not there and very few have completed a course. He said this was backed up by research conducted by Jenny Evans of Edith Cowan University.

The NSW public sector has a good understanding of what a RM program is and what is required, and they are confident there are more vacancies or positions in RM than people applying for them. Most leaving school do not even know there is such a thing as RM as a career.  He referred to vacancies increasing and the number of people applying declining.

Employers are not crying out for applicants in the archival domain but in RM there are two different levels. She is interested in the records technician level previously talked about.  

Felt there will be a growing demand in Commonwealth government agencies.

His council had an archivist position advertised for six months and still could not find a person. The issue with local government is location and suitable salary. 

5. There is a lack of available data about the fate of graduates from records and archives educational programs.

Curtin keeps a database of all graduates, and that most are employed before they finish their qualifications and are getting very good positions without the experience.  

Her organisation has two groups of students: post graduates who get recordkeeping and some management positions and students coming out with a dual qualification who mostly head off into the library world and are not getting picked up in the records and archives positions. 

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6. School leavers have no knowledge of recordkeeping / records management as a career.

Most leaving school do not even know there is such a thing as RM as a career. 

ALIA (Australian Library & Information Association) is putting together an advertising package called “At Your Library”.  Edith Cowan University is a partner.  It raises awareness of the profession.  She said not many school leavers are attracted into the recordkeeping courses and professions need to think about attracting young people into them. 

Return to Exploiting ARES.

7. Are recordkeeping qualifications necessary to be a recordkeeper?

They are still necessary but are often acquired after being employed.

Curtin University’s under-graduate degree information indicated most see the need for upgrading their qualifications.  Recordkeeping has been taught for ten years at the university and there should now be more people coming through due to the PELS (Postgraduate Education Loans Scheme); most post graduate students are coming back into the workforce after perhaps having children or wanting a career change. 

Worked as a qualified and experienced archivist in schools for ten years and before that with the larger organisations and considers that inexperienced sole practitioners were incredibly disadvantaged. Throwing a post grad fresh from university into a sole practitioner job is bad news because they have so much to learn about non professional workplace skills and knowledge.

8. Should employers of recordkeeping staff insist on their possessing related qualifications?

Stressed that it is an issue that needs airing.  It is broader than the link to membership qualifications of particular professional associations

Felt one does not have a profession unless a professional qualification is required.

The issue is important to discuss now because employers in NSW are looking to professional associations to say what a qualified archivist has to have to be employed under the Award.  She was interested to know whether any other States’ awards specify the possession of qualifications.

The ACT government is looking at the whole training issue and considering apprenticeships, bringing in 17 and 18 year-olds to work and study two days.  Agencies do not want someone with professional qualifications, but someone who can do a job.  The qualifications are desirable but will be a last requirement.

Work experience is a good thing but it is difficult to find employers willing to provide it. An Employers Register would be helpful, providing names of employers willing to provide work experience (preferably paid). Note that the Commonwealth Government Careers Book includes both Archivists and Records Managers as employment categories together with desired qualifications. Mandatory qualifications should be stated.

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There is a trainee at his council and part of the trainee’s employment conditions is that the person has to complete at least certificate IV in RM.  People gain work experience at the Southern City Regional Organisational Council by participating in a job rotation program where people who have no experience can go to a certain council for ‘x’ number of days and come back and put what they learnt into practice.  He felt it was also another way of sharing resources

Noted ALIA has para professional and professional sectors. Such an approach could link to mandatory qualifications.

On the need for mandatory qualifications, there is some division between private and public sectors about the making of qualifications mandatory because in the questionnaire there were 45 responses from people working in small archives or the private sector and half the respondents said job descriptions specified the need for tertiary qualifications.  There was also an equal number of people who had it or were working towards it.

Noted WA requires a degree but doesn’t specify information management or archives or records; South Australia requires an information management type degree; NT require a recordkeeping qualification or membership of professional association for archives positions but not for RM jobs.  All the other institutions to varying degrees said they thought it was desirable and it was encouraged in some way.  It was not mandatory.

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SPEAKERS

Barbara Van Bronswijk - Archivist, Wesley College, Perth 

Loris Williams – ASA Indigenous Issues Special Interest Group

Issues identified in the Facilitator’s Summary

1. The special needs of lone practitioners, Indigenous recordkeepers and some specialists are not addressed in courses.  Although the needs of these groups were recognised it was felt that it was impossible for general courses to meet them with any level of specificity, and other ways, including CPD organised by professional associations, would have to deal with them.

The first issue is to determine whether what we want included in courses should be offered at under-graduate or post-graduate level. The speaker’s preference is to include the special educational needs of the ‘lone arranger’ in post-graduate level courses.  Since the first survey of small archives was made there has been an increase in people with professional qualifications. The benchmark is constantly being raised. 

What about the issue of the small archives course in relation to resources?  How do you sell these courses?  Boutique courses were said to be impossible to sell within a university. Can the universities offer such courses.

It is difficult, and survivability depends on the numbers. If one does not get the numbers the courses cannot be sustained. Specialisations are: (1) difficult to get up as courses; and (2) difficult to sustain. 

The whole area of records, archives, museums etc is poorly conceptualised by school leavers. It requires an understanding of how the world and organisations work, how knowledge is created.  Undergraduate courses in librarianship seem to exist but only in Australia.  In general, people are attracted to knowledge management at post-graduate level and after having experienced life.  Secondly, in terms of the earlier mention of a preference for going for basic training, the speaker was not sure if she meant that or under graduate qualifications.  If a student does a BA in records and information management, would s/he then go on to a post-graduate degree with similar content?  Is it that you want someone who only does pure records management and forget about electives and so on? It was, however, noted that ‘lone arrangers’ were best served by broadly based post graduate training to ensure that they could cope with a very wide range of responsibilities.

At Curtin the post graduate level there are certificates, graduate diplomas, and masters awards with four generic units for masters and graduate diploma students. Students can thereafter elect clusters to meet their specific needs. One cluster at the moment is local studies.  Archivists from small archives could possibly negotiate the creation of a suitable cluster within this framework.  

QUT has information management and library courses but not recordkeeping because there are insufficient numbers to sustain such a course. He confirmed that in their experience school leavers and undergraduate students do not have a perception of what a career in the area involves.

Most small archives are looking for professional archivists with management qualifications and who possess or are eligible for professional membership of the ASA. Consideration should be given to both employers and employees recognising that people change during their working lives. They would be expected to start with a general qualification that equips them to look at things from a different point of view and not just vocational. Then, as their career progresses they can ‘top up’ their education with additional courses. In the medical profession, for example, there is a requirement for an under graduate degree.  

Acknowledging that it is not possible for tertiary institutions to provide what small archivists need, we could have Continuing Professional Development (CPD) activities put on by professional associations.  The ASA is looking at this, and recognises that what it can do comes down to a matter of available resources. She referred to a series of Keeping Archives workshops that were very successful. Since then there was a Small Archives workshop and branches have put on small half-day workshops.  ASA has recently started a more formalised CPD seminar program to travel around Australia to focus on more broad issues. 

A representative of the Association of Catholic Archivists said that it is not trying to be so much a professional representative organisation but a group of people predominately working in the Catholic area that get together to provide professional development support for each other.  The majority of members have been teachers within a school.  There has been an attempt to have a continual run of Professional Development Days that has so far consisted of a combination of getting people together specifically to talk about the Privacy Act, and arranging get togethers to share knowledge. 

In relation to vocational education, a variety of big organisations have been using VET (Vocational Education & Training) courses at the diploma and advanced diploma levels to meet the needs of CPD for staff who already possess under graduate or post graduate qualifications e.g. Australian Association of Project Management, Australian Institute of Management, Australian Dental Association using the diploma to further develop the technicians level.  There is a need to look at what skill needs there are in CPD and how they can be aligned with vocational programs which are available. 

Return to Exploiting ARES.

Similarly an attempt is being made by the RMAA to bridge the gap for CPD. A related issue is the lack of a means of formally recognising CPD. One may get a certificate of attendance but there is no formal recognition. 

The majority of CPD for associations at the moment is that it is related to conference formats where a conference can be extended by up to five days with case studies and the like, but there is no recognition at the end. 

A survey was done last year of ASA members to see what their interests were. One outcome was the perception that reference and public program type activities within archives were not valued as highly as other aspects such as disposal.  In the survey, only 38 responded and most were COFSTA people.  Small archives said reference and access, and public programs were valued, but larger institutions said they were not. There was seen to be a need for professional development outside courses to bolster such marginalised areas.  Thematic conferences dealing with specific issues can fill gaps like this. 

An alternative model could be the Museum of Western Australia certificate in Museums Studies conducted in conjunction with ECU. 

The RMAA adopted a new CPD program at the February 2003 meeting, looking at short courses and conventions and people presenting papers as part of the program. He expressed concern about ‘professional’ always being related to postgraduate courses, and that a diploma or advanced diploma is still a qualification.  He noted those in the government chapter in NSW do not want to spend time on a four year course and that undertaking competency based modular short courses was seen as a good way of obtaining CPD and Statements of Attainment that could be aggregated to achieve a VET qualification.  

In relation to people not wanting to spend four years on study, some enter the profession half-way through their working life.  

In terms of the late starters group, an alternative was provided through entry via an Executive Certificate.  It provides a second opportunity but there are people who don’t have the academic background and drop out.  She was concerned if that happens that they get turned off education.  There is a need for support via a mentoring system. 

Return to Exploiting ARES.

2. There is need for mentoring to be considered as part of the educational framework.  There was overwhelming support for the vital role of mentoring which includes formal mentoring schemes, particularly for those involved in distance education, group mentoring programs, and informal advice provision and self-help arrangements.

A representative of the Association of Catholic Archivists said that it is not trying to be so much a professional representative organisation but a group of people predominately working in the Catholic area that get together to provide professional development support for each other.

In terms of the late starters group, an alternative was provided through entry via an executive certificate.  It provides a second opportunity but there are people who don’t have the academic background and drop out.  She was concerned if that happens that they get turned off education.  There is a need for support via a mentoring system. 

Formal mentoring schemes she said do not work for her.  The more one gets together and talks with colleagues is where one finds the real mentors.

ALIA is running a successful mentoring program. The focus this year has been on CPD with focus group meetings held monthly.  People are asked to give a donation for coffee and tea and the venues are organised by attendees. 

The ASA has a formal mentoring scheme that has experienced enormous successes but is seen by some as a failure.  Mentoring for those undertaking distance education is most important. 

One representative prefers formalised mentoring herself as one needs to build up trust with a person, particularly with indigenous people.  She noted the great support she has received from her mentor. 

How valuable do educators think mentoring schemes are?

There are no formal arrangements for mentoring in her organisation but she was extremely appreciative of any set up.  The students she was concerned about were those who work alone or in large organisations that employ a lone person in that area, or if they have access to advice, it is not good. 

The notion of traineeships and apprenticeships could be viewed as similar to mentoring and I wonder how a formal structure could be set up like that.  She felt it important to set up a formal structure like a register of people who want to be mentors. 

Return to Exploiting ARES.

My organisation does not have a formal mentoring system but people who do practical exercises build up relations and when students leave and go out we get a lot of phone calls in the first year, and the contact continues, even after people build up networks.

There is active canvassing for membership of students and people in the industry to be part of the RMAA, and being part of the profession should be seen as a mentoring role in itself.  But it is difficult to get people to be active in the profession. There is no discussion of the mentoring disasters.

Isolated students in, for instance, Mt Isa, who have had major difficulties in finding a place to do a practicum to such a degree that they are looking at having to go to the city.  These people need mentors, even if they are distant.

Mentoring is required across the whole spectrum of activity. We need to be careful not to make assumptions. For example a sole practitioner may need support in writing job descriptions and drawing up strategic plans. 

A successful NSW initiative has been the “Adopt a Country Council” mentoring scheme.  A lot of country councils do not have expertise to do things and city councils do. The idea is to link the two together. 

I had to create my own network and I did this by forcing myself upon bigger organisations like National Archives and State Records. Staff swapping is also good.  

ALIA has had some fairly successful mentoring schemes but there comes a point when everybody wants to be mentored but nobody wants to do the mentoring and there is difficulty sustaining it over time. 

The ASA has been fortunate in getting equal numbers of mentors and mentees.

There is value in there being a requirement for ongoing membership of an association that one has to put oneself forward as a mentor. 

It is important to sell the benefits of mentoring to existing and potential mentor.

It should be more widely recognised that employers have a mentoring responsibility as part of supervising and developing staff.

A lot of what the ASA and RMAA does is by volunteers, and to try and fit such things into one week is difficult.  If one is looking at formal mentoring, for a body to take it on would be very valuable. 

During the course of completing a two week practicum the lady who was the supervisor has been in contact throughout the rest of the semester and said if I need any help give me a call, and this sets up mentoring as well.

The ASA has a careers pack, but more could be put into it.

A simple pack could be set up for schools.

The main reasons why it is so difficult is because of a lack of time.  She felt chat rooms could be used to become a mentor for mentorees. 

When one talks about mentoring, one talks about: (1) professional mentoring in the one to one sense; and (2) mentoring via educational institutions and other sources of advice that we might use. Sometimes one can get both types of mentoring from the same source.  

3. Continuing Professional Development (CPD) of all sorts is vital but the cost of CPD is a major impediment to employees in the private sector having adequate access to it.  

Some people experience difficulties meeting the costs of a CPD course at $350. 

The Sydney Branch of the School Archives SIG of the ASA has turned term meetings into two professional days a year because there is employer support, and secondly, it enables people to get training in the area.  A professional development day for $47.50 was available which had two professionals from the museums area.  It is something small archives should look at.  Professional support groups could be part of a bigger master CPD plan.

The RMAA has been helping through its chapter groups – for instance the NSW Local Government Chapter.  Most Council employees have expressed concern about the ability to get away and affordability. Meetings were therefore held in their local areas to put in two-day events at around $90 that included accommodation and lunch.  The Council sponsored them.  Speakers came at their own expense but this is a drain on a limited number of volunteers. 

Do members of COFSTA have a responsibility to provide financial assistance to improve the state of archives keeping?  There could be joint initiatives between the National Library and National Archives to set up an office and one role could be training in education.

Return to Exploiting ARES.

There is the Community Heritage Grant scheme administered jointly by the NAA (National Archives of Australia) and NLA (National Library of Australia) open to community based organisations to do something in the area of preservation and it may support a training component.  There is also the ASA sponsored Archives Support Program.  It focuses on smaller archives issues.  In terms of money for supporting the private sector, she could not see that COFSTA institutions would be interested.

State Records of WA do provide regional training that can be accessed by the private sector although it is primarily for government, including local government, recordkeepers and archivists, sometimes at their expense, but sometimes sponsored.  

The NAA is a generous supporter of ASA and RMAA activities and provides ‘in kind’ support with things like postage and photocopying. 

The RMAA sponsors some students undertaking further study, whether through sponsorship of things like Student of the Year or, for instance, the WA and NT Branches pay for tuition fees to sponsor some students.

It is all very well to promote CPD to people who enter RM, but employers of people who have been ‘dumped’ into RM positions often run compulsory training courses for them.  

4. Employees seek recognition in the qualification framework for CPD.  Employees want formal CPD to result in credit towards qualifications.

Return to Exploiting ARES.

In relation to vocational education, a variety of big organisations have been using VET (Vocational Education & Training) courses at the diploma and advanced diploma levels to meet the needs of CPD for staff who already possess under graduate or post graduate qualifications e.g. Australian Association of Project Management, Australian Institute of Management, Australian Dental Association using the diploma to further develop the technicians level.  There is a need to look at what skill needs there are in CPD and how they can be aligned with vocational programs that are available. 

Similar to the ASA an attempt is being made by the RMAA to bridge the gap for CPD. A related issue is the lack of a means of formally recognising CPD. One may get a certificate of attendance but there is no formal recognition. 

The majority of CPD for associations at the moment is that it is related to conference formats where a conference can be extended by up to five days with case studies and the like, but there is no recognition at the end. 

It was noted that those in the government chapter in NSW do not want to spend time on a four year course and that undertaking competency based modular short courses was seen as a good way of obtaining CPD and Statements of Attainment that could be aggregated to achieve a VET qualification.  

When working in RM in a private organisation a lot of records staff wanted a module to get recognition via a short-term course. 

5. There is a need for awareness programs among schools and communities, as well as more scholarships and traineeships, if more Indigenous people are to be enticed into recordkeeping courses.  Indigenous communities are not currently aware of recordkeeping as an appropriate area of study but there are ways of overcoming this lack of awareness, particularly by reaching Indigenous educators.

In relation to people not wanting to spend four years on study, some enter the profession half-way through their working life.  We should be attracting people straight from high school. 

Reference was made to the difficulties of explaining to young people what Records Management (RM) is about and that one does not have to do this with IT or research, but if one starts to explain Archives and RM, there are often blank faces. 

6. There was a desire for courses to include more practical training as well as theoretical education.  This reflects the issue also brought up by the employer representatives.

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ARES Home   About ARES    Facilitator’s Summary

SPEAKERS

Colleen McEwen - Australian Society of Archivists

Lesley Ferguson - Records Management Association of Australasia 

 Issues identified in the Facilitator’s Summary

1. What should be the role of professional associations in the provision of CPD?  There was a general view that CPD was an important role of professional associations but that financial constraints can inhibit comprehensive CPD programs.  The RMAA will complete its current CPD trial.  The ASA will study the result of the RMAA trial.

2. Should CPD participation (or tested successful completion) be required for the maintenance of professional membership?  There were diverging views on this issue.  The majority view was that compulsory CPD is only effective where the professional body has the power to prevent practice by recalcitrant members.  However the ALIA model of voluntary entry to the program but compulsory completion post entry was also discussed.  

The point about getting professional membership and not maintaining skill levels is a real issue that professional associations should be concerned about. 

The RMAA has decided to pilot its CPD trial amongst directors or branch councillors.  He felt professional development of members was a way of giving back to the industry through lecturing, mentoring or whatever.  

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How will it be managed and who would administer it?

The RMAA has a new membership database which has CPD built in and when one registers for a conference it tells the system you are qualified, although one has to make sure the person attends.  In the health industry he noted there is a software program that meant you sent information in once a year, and was based on an honesty system.

It was noted that chartered accountants have to go through it and their model could be investigated. 

The ASA is looking at it but has misgivings about the cost of maintaining it, suspecting it would be too much work with limited resources. 

There is no doubt that CPD is something needed, but actually developing and maintaining it on an ongoing basis was for the ASA extremely resource intensive. 

A program to monitor CPD activities was a great idea and she could not see why it would be resource intensive because members’ self interest should ensure their assistance with entering data and the like. 

New Zealand record managers said they are very keen about it but do not have the time and money. While intentions are good, they are not always followed through. 

Issues of equal opportunity of access, quality and costs all need investigation.

The RMAA have examined the issues.  She is from Tasmania and has looked at it to ensure isolation issues were addressed so people who cannot attend regular lunch meetings, can maintain the CPD over the triennium. She said there were a variety of things that could contribute to points. She said the reason why the RMAA was trialling it was to ensure costs do not blow out. 

Why is it being done? To maintain currency of knowledge? To ensure member participation in Asssociation activities?

IIM (Institute of Information Management) was attempting to allow members to take single subjects or sets of subjects within existing course offerings that fitted technical skill or knowledge requirements for an individual.  One subject could be achieved as part of an overall degree. They have not yet been able to get the structures up. 

ALIA introduced a CPD scheme three years ago. Why? It wanted to give people an opportunity to stay up-to-date in the profession because they recognised people got their Associate membership and did nothing for the next twenty-five years.  People had a choice to join the scheme but if they joined they were expected to comply.  Over three years one was expected to do 80 weighted hours of CPD and 20 in any one year.  Activities moved from generic to specific. There was about a ten percent take up.  It was later found most people were able to use the guide put out and manage it but there were some who thought it was all too hard.  ALIA was conscious that some members were in isolated situations and the take up was very low. There were also members not prepared to pay a lot for courses.  Most want something cheap, easy to get to, and preferably face-to-face. ALIA had to rethink the whole thing but take-up of the current scheme is better.  

3. What is the purpose of course recognition?  What should be recognised?  What should be the criteria for recognition? How can members of recognition panels be supported?  These questions and related matters were the most discussed areas at the Forum.  There was no agreement but there was a commitment for the RMAA and the ASA to meet with educators and other interested professional associations, such as IIM, to propose a way forward.  The VET sector must be included.

Accreditation is considered of significant value to the ASA as it contributes to the credibility of a professional body and demonstrates its commitment to educational standards.  Universities value recognition of a professional society as a means of ensuring courses meet professional standards.  

The RMAA’s views are the same about being recognised as professionals. 

Accreditation conveys a message that a particular qualification is considered to provide adequate education for a possessor to undertake the professional work of an Archivist / Recordkeeper and  could assist employers to select personnel. 

There is no statutory requirement anywhere in the world for an information professional who wishes to practice or meet any kind of professional association criteria to be formally accredited.  There is a Code of Ethics, which is not legally defined, and a body that says we are professional and socially responsible when dealing with intellectual capital. Universities are happy with the idea of offering courses recognised by professional associations and universities seek it, but it is not for professional accreditation per se but because it is hoped graduates will be more successful in getting jobs.  However, there is no commodity transaction that happens which will assure they have a job of any kind. 

Some areas of the health industry are constrained by legislation to employ only duly qualified and accredited  Health Information Managers.

ALIA uses ‘Course Recognition’ rather than accreditation, which means students who have graduated from a recognised course are deemed to be proficient to practice. She also noted that in law and medicine there are statutory and regulatory requirements.

The RMAA course recognition program is called ‘course recognition’ rather than ‘accreditation’ for the same reason.  

A survey of WA advertisements was carried out by her in 2000 and of the 79 advertisements only 8 required professional membership: 4 RMAA; 1 ASA, and 1 the Australian Computer Society.

The small number of advertisements requiring professional membership is evidence of employers not understanding what they are asking for.

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My organisation ran a letter writing campaign such that whenever there was a newspaper advert. that did not require eligibility for professional membership of the appropriate professional body, the organisation lodging the advert. was written to. 

The focus of discussion seems to be on outcomes. Should it not be about ensuring that the rules of a professional association establish a nexus between qualifications and professional membership?

The equation ‘professional membership = professional qualifications’ is very complex. 

Course recognition processes should be established, such that there is not the focus on structures of the courses or school infrastructure but on the products of the courses, namely graduates coming out having the skills and knowledge that people need to practice effectively in the profession. If one thinks of a traditional model, course structures can be side-tracked into detail rather than the outcome of a good graduate. If professional associations do not require a professional qualification for membership, it is not true to say the professional associations fully support professional education in the field.  We should not claim there is full support for the notion if their professional association rules do not support it.  

If one says professional membership means professional qualifications (which means tertiary qualifications) then one has to make sure the courses are there.

Concern was expressed about how other organisations may not know the rules of how one becomes a professional member of an association.  In the RMAA there has been a change of the structure this year in the sense it is having a professional member stream.  One can still join as an individual member with no qualifications.  In the RMAA the professional member side was covered up within the Association but now the RMAA has brought it to the forefront.  Someone who started thirty years ago and has a bachelor of arts in archives is still deemed as qualified, and to him that is not accurate.

The association of records management internationally has a model which says their main effort is education, and in that way it is similar to the RMAA. Education is offered through the annual conference and chapter meetings.  They do not recognise courses in any way but have an Institute of Certified Records Managers (CRM) for those who have been working in the field. Professional qualifications have nothing to do with it.  It is for people who have worked in the field and successsfully sat exams set by the Institute who can call themselves CRMs.  Is that the kind of thing we want to endorse?  She felt if one wants a recognition of courses that guarantees them outcomes like RMAA and ASA surely those introductory professional levels in practice are a tertiary education phenomenon that must be recognised. 

The Academy in America has a process of accrediting individuals based on them taking exams. If it is outcomes, does that mean it is a person with an ability and not education that gets them to that point? 

The ASA has been continually vexed over the last 28 years by the question, ‘What constitutes a professional and how is that defined?  It is extremely difficult to get to a consensus. 

Are we talking about somebody who can call themselves a professional or someone able to do a certain job at a certain level with understanding? 

One does not mean the other. 

Another way of expressing what we are trying to do is to ‘preserve a domain specific set of understandings’.  Maybe we should concentrate on defining that set. 

ALIA’s stance is that because there exists a course recognition program, people who meet the criteria by meeting the course criteria, have met the ALIA criteria and there is a very specific model part of which includes possessing a recognised qualification.  The model is being reviewed at the moment, but presently people who meet a basic requirement for professional membership, can become Associates or professional members.  There is a bottom line that says one must have an ALIA recognised qualification at tertiary level to be regarded as a professional librarian, and employers accept that.  

Because the ASA was formed out of the Archives Section of the LAA (Library Association of Australia) there was a clear idea of what it thought a professional level should be, almost like a minimum level of education for Archivists, and she could not see how one could get away from that, nor that it needed changing.  

Returning to accreditation, these are voluntary associations with limited resources. Can we sustain the process and is it desirable?  In the realm of very volatile education sectors, higher education and schools are being rejigged all the time, and there is a need for structures which are flexible and not over burdening for associations.  There is a need for more ‘outside the box’ thinking rather than a set structure on how to do things.

The RMAA thinks there needs to be flexibility within the process to meet the needs of what people are training themselves for because the market is driving them to get something there.  She felt that if we cannot reorganise it in a more flexible way there will be problems. 

The ASA cannot sustain the process followed in the last two accreditation rounds.  The ASA must establish an accountable and transparent process that includes students and employers and that we can maintain. Maybe a compliance check list

It was suggested that we follow model of the ARA in America where there were a number of professional associations in information management areas that joined together to set up a separate independent accrediting body with representatives from each of the contributing bodies rotating through it.   

Is it conceivable there could be a joint recognition platform between the RMAA and the ASA?

In the last round of accreditations there was an agreement between the ASA and RMAA working towards that type of arrangement when, in one round, joint accreditations were done where each organisation used its own criteria, but there was a joint visit and the documentation was the same.  The main issue is about the differences between the two.  The ASA has a strong focus on educational qualifications in its rules and that is why it does accreditation, but the RMAA is far broader.  

Everything I have heard today speaks of one profession and it refers to one standard as being the governing document, and I cannot see how one can possibly have two sets of accreditation, as to me, we are talking about a single profession. 

I was on a panel jointly run between the ASA and RMAA and we looked at credentials of staff at a university, the resources available, the training facilities etc and the outcome was the RMAA did not accredit that university course and the ASA did. 

Is it desirable to have a joint set of criteria?

As neither a member of the ASA nor the RMAA but as a member of the American Society for Information Science and Technology (ASISAT) which thirty-five years ago was called the American Documentation Institute, I recall how that body celebrated the various domains of documentation it represented. It occurred to me how there would be more power if all the separate domains could be celebrated within a single umbrella organisation. The professional / para professional divide could be accommodated within that.  At the professional level one is more concerned with socialisation of information and sharing a body of information and anything like an information management association should be pushed. 

Most of the work she does is about integrating into other technologies and delivering recordkeeping in different ways, but that the job cannot be done unless one knows what recordkeeping is within a domain specific set of understandings.  In the 1980s that ‘information’ track was gone down and ended up not knowing what we were.  In terms of framework, she asked why accreditation is being done.  Is it to preserve the domain specific understanding, give universities the ability to assure their graduates they’ll get jobs? One has to disentangle the reasons and work out which reasons fit different ways of conducting accreditation. 

When courses are being looked at within the university and reviews of schools or courses are undertaken, the fact the two bodies recognise the courses gives a standing and authority within the university process to represent that professional view. The academic staff are able to offer their view of what kinds of educational programs might work, and the combination of these contributions is fed into the schools’ future directions. Such a process strengthens both the associations and the university schools.

The view was strongly endorsed by another educator. 

When recordkeepers are educated they are prepared for a range of specific jobs and what has to be looked at is what is absolutely fundamental to performing those jobs and what range of pathways can be provided to provide those fundamentals. For instance, medicine and nursing all do different things but have to start off knowing certain things in common.  

There has to be a more efficient way to do that recognition / accreditation

An educator said he has heard only one good reason for course recognition, that it will give the universities or teaching locations an advantage or protection to maintain their courses.  The rest of the conversation is around how it is good for the profession and people already members. Outside this group, who cares? He felt accreditation has to be more outwards rather than inward looking, and the need to ask what it is offering to those outside the profession and not what it is offering for those in the profession. 

From a student point of view when looking at what sort of courses she would study she looked for courses accredited or recognised. It did not matter to her if it was ASA or RMAA, as long as it was a professionally recognised qualification in the records field.

Go back to the ALIA model for outward looking justification, namely where employers can say this is the minimum expectation for a professional in the area. 

One definition of a profession is that it maintains a body of knowledge, and that is usually done through the education system.  The body of knowledge has to be maintained in some way and if it is not through the profession itself, or through a registration process, it has to be another way such as through an education system. 

One cannot ignore the fact that in the VET sector the environment has changed.  There are different structures at different levels and a government bureaucracy assessing it all. One is forced to question whether it is the same thing as a professional accreditation.  Do we wish to accept various pathways to accreditation?

4. There is great benefit in the RMAA and ASA conducting recognition reviews at the same time.  This will be included in the joint meetings proposed under the previous point.

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ARES Home   About ARES    Facilitator’s Summary

 SPEAKERS

Kathryn Dan  – Council of Federal, State and Territory Archives 

Cassandra Findlay – State Records, New South Wales [

Bronwyn Keighley-Gerardy – Information Commissioner WA 

Issues identified in the Facilitator’s Summary

1. Regulation of recordkeepers is a new thing and will take some time to bed down.  It is probably too early to judge outcomes although the success of SRNSW’s goal of improving the level of skills in the NSW government records management workforce by 2005 will be an indicator of what can be achieved.

Since the NSW model made it mandatory to have skilled staff, TAFE enrolments have increased dramatically and there is obviously an advantage to enforce such compliance.

There are benefits in regulating recordkeeping because if one does not set the standards organisations will not fulfill them, particularly if there are not people knocking on one’s door. 

The Victorian jurisdiction has no legal penalties for non compliance but programs have been newly offered, diverse and have included regions, and there has been a huge take up.  Some areas however, are quite recalcitrant. 

Because there is no compliance requirement, those who deliberately or inadvertently avoid RM activities continue to compound existing problems. 

A practical objective is to get skills out there, think about what one is trying to achieve and develop ways to leverage training from what you have into the wider arena of the established standards. 

In the private sector it is difficult to recruit qualified RM people because they have all been taken up by the government sector as there is more money. 

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In the trade union movement sector there is an attempt to offer some minimum workshop type training for representatives of trade unions, but without a number of other tools and no regulatory regime, or resources little progress is made. 

Have resources increased in NSW now training has become compulsory?

Training has not become compulsory, but the need to get the skills and training from somewhere has.  The need for more resources and to get people to participate in training is more the issue than the existence of a standard. It was when the audit came around that there was found to be a need for the reallocation of resources.

The Australian National Audit Office has been conducting audits of Commonwealth recordkeeping and it is clear one of the things they identified as an issue is a shortage or absence of specialist recordkeeping knowledge or skills at the strategic level. It is also clear that the Audit Office does not have a benchmark with which to compare the practices they are auditing. 

The Queensland State Archives is implementing an umbrella standard, and going through that is the requirement for establishing plans. There are more people in training because of the requirement to submit a plan and do a SWAT analysis.  There is some success in regional training such as Townsville and Gladstone and by bringing in a new requirement the focus has changed and people get more interested and want more training and further knowledge. 

Too much is being expected of the employers. What about the personal responsibility of individuals to provide their own continuing professional development?  If one does it off one’s own bat, one will be able to apply for better jobs. It is these individuals that she is finding are ‘flying.’ 

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The requirement for CEO’s to ‘sign off’ their RM Plans places the responsibility on them for having appropriately qualified staff.

2. Models and information from one jurisdiction are not easily transferred to other jurisdictions.  The differing legislative environments and statutory powers mean that programs need to be devised specifically for each jurisdiction.

RM in the private sector is largely risk management, and whether the content of the courses at the moment adequately address that, she did not know.  She personally would like to be employing people with basic RM skills that could be quantified in some way, and beyond that it is a very different ‘animal.’ 

There was an attempt by the ACT when framing their standards to put in that staff had to be suitably qualified.  Every agency advised that they could not afford to train their existing records staff from existing budgets. The government refused to provide more money for the implementation of the Territory Records Act and therefore would not be hiring qualified records managers and paying for staff to become qualified. 

If people they are trying to regulate hamper regulators in their regulation, what is the point of being a regulator? 

One would have more qualified people with experience, but coming from nothing. 

In relation to actually regulating in the area of education for government archives it is a new thing and will be achieved incrementally. The desire to improve across the board is something that should be acknowledged.

3. Partnerships between regulators and education and training providers are a very productive way of ensuring that the training required by regulators can be delivered.  

If one upgrades the standards of what one is expecting (e.g. adequately trained recordkeeping staff) one needs to be able to keep up with the demand for training.  Her organisation was not.  Short course training was offered from Sydney. It was recognised that it was essential to provide training not only in Sydney, but also in the regions in NSW, and that partnerships with external training organisations would enable this to be done. State Records would gain the added benefits of providing stimulating training alternatives and helping to develop a vibrant records training industry.  Training has been very well received.  State Records specify the content of the training. 

Where does this vital recordkeeping training mesh with accreditation processes?  Training might be undergone in NSW and then those who have completed it might want to move to Adelaide. Who will recognise it?   She was also interested to know how small States like Tasmania and WA would fare.  If one is a big State like Victoria or NSW, there are more resources and more people. Is the training offered in NSW to be packaged and made available to other state authorities? 

Rules relating to training are different in each jurisdiction as are attitudes. Training in the Commonwealth arena is completely different from operating in NSW, and completely different in Qld in relation to attitudes to consultants etc.  Modularising is a good idea. 

The ACT tends to get people coming in to do training who are oriented to the requirements of the NAA or State Records of NSW, for example. We are concerned that we will be ‘DIRKSed’. Where is the training in generic RM skills?  The ideal would be to develop and train people in generic skills with the specific requirements of local legislation being added. 

In NSW there is interest in the Fundamentals of Records Management course from all sectors, from people leaving the NSW government and wanting training done and paid by their employer to give a basic grounding. That indicates a gap in the market for a short course aligned to the competencies to use as a way towards a TAFE qualification, for instance. 

Interest was expressed in hearing from the Forum about the viability of being able to extend courses to accommodate people in the private sector, particularly the sole practitioners. 

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People from other sectors are welcome to enrol in the Fundamentals of Records Management course but it is beyond the scope of the State Records of NSW to extend the course to cater for people outside its jurisdiction. 

It is very difficult, when one has a mixed audience, to tailor material to meet all needs.  

It is the responsibility of the trainer to do her / his homework in preparing for each session.

The Queensland training schedule applies over 3-4 months per year only offering a relatively small window of opportunity.  Are the partnerships with RTOs or consultants? 

State Records of NSW does not have a partnership with an RTO at the moment because there are not enough around with the depth of experience. 

Archives NZ has been looking at in-house competencies, and developed a draft based on Australian competencies.

By way of clarification the Recordkeeping Institute is a separate organisation from the consulting company. 

There is a number of training providers in different States available to provide different levels of quantity and quality of training.  As to partnerships between government sectors as regulators and the private sector as providers of training, the arrangements need to be non-exclusive so government bodies get access to a range of styles and transfer knowledge back into the government bodies to diminish the ivory tower perception. There is also a need to be able to see what is or is not workable on the ground.

We need to stick to the recordkeeping knitting.

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1. There is a need for people at the higher levels to have skills that are not primarily recordkeeping. How do we ensure they are inculcated in the education of these people?  

In NSW it is realised that in order to get adequate resources for Records Management it is imperative that any organisation has a senior manager ultimately responsible for Records Management. It is unlikely that such a person will be a Records Manager. In a large government agency the Chief Information Officer could sign off on a RM policy and oversight the implementation of programs. There are differently structured agencies down to micro agencies.  The favourite agency used as a test case is the ‘Wild Dog Destruction Board’ which has one administration officer and fifteen shooters located in Broken Hill. Their Corporate Records Manager is the Administration Officer.  

A classic outcome of somebody with a higher education degree is their ability to apply skills at different levels. Strategic recordkeeping is a capacity that can lead to information management and knowledge management and content management. 

Rotation through different offices is the ideal means of professional development.

RMIT offer courses in Information and Knowledge Management. 

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ARES Home   About ARES    Facilitator’s Summary

SPEAKERS    

Karen Anderson – Edith Cowan University

Margaret Pember - Curtin University 

Sue McKemmish – Monash University 

Phil Bevan – Esset Australia 

Barbara Reed – Recordkeeping Institute

Amanda Cossham – Open Polytechnic NZ

Issues identified in the Facilitator’s Summary

1. The profession and associations need to be aware of the rapidly changing nature of the current education environment, including the changed financial structures, and to take this into account in their expectations of what is possible.  The old models of course recognition are probably no longer capable of effectively delivering the outcomes desired.

In terms of the politics of higher education, there are people trying to work on the maintenance of programs in extraordinarily changing circumstances and she did not think the profession understood this.  It needs to understand the paradigms in which one is trying to develop and deliver programs.  Determining what can be done to support the existing programs would be far more useful than to say employers want communication skills. 

Return to Exploiting ARES.

In relation to course content, from the employers’ perspective, there is the ASA and the RMAA processes that look at courses that provides employers with a level of confidence that what is coming out in relation to technical content is right. 

2. Assessment for course recognition purposes should not cover areas already covered in university quality assessment processes.  University educators, and in different ways other education providers, are already assessed in several ways under a range of quality assurance programs.  It could be assumed that these meet course recognition requirements, or, alternatively, the outcomes of these assessments could be made available to assessment panels.  This will form part of the discussions between the ASA and RMAA and educators outlined in the Professional Associations section above.

There should be a degree of trust in the people who have been battling to maintain university courses. Can we short cut the need to second-guess our educators?   

The ASA is struggling with its accreditation process. One area of difficulty is the apparent difference between what is assessed at the moment in the university sector is courses, but not an individual as appears to be the case with competency based training.

A represented organisation has undertaken accreditation processes with a number of other big bodies and it is a process of looking at course outcomes and how it is aligned to international standards and competency standards, and how they are delivered.  The distinction between the vocational and university sectors is that there are outcomes set in the competency standards.  It is the RTO’s responsibility to ensure it has the strategies and qualities and personnel in place. 

The RMAA course recognition program looked at the resources the university has, availability of computers, quality of the library, qualifications of teaching staff, and course content.  The only thing of concern that came out of the process is the qualifications of people teaching.

In relation to the perceived need to look at the resources and facilities in universities because there are not the same quality frameworks and audits as there are in the VET sector - it is not the case that the universities have no quality framework or auditing process.  The quality frameworks are different but universities have those frameworks in place largely via the Australian University Quality Agency.  The issue in relation to course recognition in the higher education sector is that the association should not be putting resources into checking whether there are enough computers or resources but the focus should be on whether the courses meet content curriculum outcomes and whether the staff are appropriately qualified in relation to records and archives.  

It is useful for universities in their own structure to do accreditation. Is it not the same for RTOs? 

It is. His organisation has to demonstrate it has undertaken a consultative process with peak bodies without having courses accredited.  Every individual RTO has a method approved by its local State Training Authority.  

From a regulator’s point of view it would be useful if there was a strong collaborative course recognition process shared by the ASA and the RMAA that should recognise courses through higher education and training sectors, both RTOs and non.  It has to rely on other forms of accreditation like universities, and is limited in what it can endorse.  It would like a workable scheme operated jointly by ASA and RMAA for the purpose of lobbying to get qualifications in industrial awards, key selection criteria, upskilling records management work. 

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3. Universities want to communicate with employers and welcome employer representatives on panels or in other consultative forums.

Being a member of a number of consultative committees, she finds it very useful as an employer, but when the committees get large and structured one cannot say much.  The more specific to record keeping the more one is able to participate.  

The trend in Edith Cowan is that the smaller consultative committees are better and they refuse to merge them.  

Over the past ten years her organisation has moved from consultative bodies attached to every program, to a single group of people, the members of which are considered to have an interest in developing and monitoring specific programs, but the group is division wide – 3 or 4 faculties – and meets once a year.  She said she would like the profession to start initiating informal groups because it is the only way the university would listen to her particular school. It is difficult for academics to stay in contact with what is happening in the profession, as they are absorbed in their own worlds.

Those present are not so pre-occupied that they would not do what is suggested. 

In relation to course content, from the employers’ perspective, there are the ASA and the RMAA processes that look at courses that provides employers with a level of confidence that what is coming out in relation to technical content is right.  

The notion of a consultative process is supported as it is good for an employer and from a university point of view.  Some universities do it really well and others do not do it at all.  Those that do, take it to program and course levels and the employer representatives are happy to provide input into course content.  

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4. Research is important to both the universities and the profession.

5. There is a need to provide quality assessed resources and accredited trainers for VET courses.  It was noted that there are no quality assessed courses for recordkeeping training and there is a shortage of qualified trainers.  RTO representatives noted that this did not mean that there were not adequate and suitable resources.  They also noted that partnerships were a way of addressing the shortage of trainers.

In relation to quality; one can have confidence in the quality of RTOs (Registered Training Organisations) because they are in the VET sector and highly scrutinised under the Australian Quality Training Framework by the departments of education in every State.  In relation to resources, there are resources that have been developed in conjunction with other authorities to deliver vocational level Certificates III and IV only.  They are not listed as being freely available at this stage because it is an extremely expensive proposition to get the resources to that state of readiness and the RTO is not in a position to expose its investment.  He said at this stage he did not see a need to go to that further step of having them endorsed by ANTA.  

The competency standards are fine - the delivery framework is arguable.

The NSW Branch of the RMAA developed the original accredited national curriculum with TAFE  but the new system is very complicated involving issues of translating web based outcomes to competencies.  It was only after a lot of lobbying that there was the ability to get the national curriculum aligned with the competencies.  Of all the 57 RTOs, he could not believe that there were 57 qualified to teach. 

Surprise was registered that there were only that few and not hundreds.  One of the practices of some RTOs is that they grab the Business Services Training Package and put it on a scope registration, which means they have the ability to deliver it, but once audited and found to be not delivering it would be deemed non-compliant and of the 57 that have been identified, the four that deliver it would be compliant.  

This is where one can look at the process of registration to determine those providers who have met the government requirements and possess high standards in staffing qualifications and resources and delivery. 

The consistency of the registration / accreditation of RTOs by the State accreditation bodies seems to be inconsistent.

The Business Services Training Package was released in November 2001 and the AQTF in January 2002. This gave all RTOs a window of opportunity to sneak in an extension of their scope without having to meet the new standards.  Although there may be 57 providers, some may not have met the new AQTF  standards.

The RMAA Board meeting in February considered the issue of RTOs. In reality there are only 3-4 RTOs that are serious about training and assessing in Recordkeeping.  The concern was the quality of course content and who is providing it and are there qualified people delivering the course.  The RMAA considered there was an opportunity to do it but it is very expensive with lots of work and with volunteers there is not the time to do that.  The Board considered how it could work with the RTOs.  Perhaps there could be some form of course recognition on the quality of material produced and who were the organisers.  A lot of the industry is getting into the area pushing apprentices into Certificate III and IV.  The RMAA wants to support that.  

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The educational outcome is the most important thing.

Will an RTO representative describe what is involved in establishing partnerships in the VET context?  

Records Solutions sees itself as an RM organisation, and the specific focus of the RTO is on the recordkeeping side of education.  As to Certificate III it is made up of 12 competency units, four core and some elective.  The core competencies are recordkeeping specific because people are, at the end of the day, recordkeeping experts.  As to elective units, it has had to improve expertise to assess the 8 elective units, and that is where partnerships could be of large significance.  Records Solutions is talking to other national RTOs to go into an alliance.  There could be a contracting scenario set up where one delivers the core units, and the partner the elective units to ensure the end user has a high quality qualification.  

The framework for VET assessment is generic and about process and has nothing to do with the content. Maybe the professional associations have a role in monitoring that.  In terms of a brokerage role, she queried whether the competitive realities could be transcended to do these things. 

The aspect of partnering he wished to pursue related to auspicing – that process followed to get the specific number of adequately qualified trainers and assessors. 

We are at a point where the demand speaks for itself so we are able to address the demand by the processes set up for trainers and assessors to make sure they meet the rigid requirements of delivering it.  No attempt is being made to go beyond it at this point. 

How did Records Solutions establish that trainers were competent?

Records Solution responded to AQTF Standard 7 that talks about the competence of the RTO staff, which makes reference to the workplace training and assessment.

In other words was Records Solutions able to ‘deem’ trainers competent on the basis of equivalent qualifications; that they have already achieved a certificate in the VET sector with the State Training Authority accepting it as equivalent to those currently offered, even though they are different in structure. 

One has to work through a process of recognition of tracking back to the Institutes to assess how they would deem a certificate done in the past. 

Auspicing is a useful model if there are courses or materials not aligned to national qualifications where it can be done without being an RTO.  One can align previously non-accredited training.  Partnerships need to look at how VET and the university sector can maximise value to the profession in offering career pathways right up to completion of a Graduate Diploma or Masters Degree. 

There is a need to identify, when talking about courses, that there is a syllabus and training material such as student or teaching guides.  The syllabus sets the content that is approved by an external review panel made up of a wide range of people. 

The provider is usually drawing from a very limited field and has not gone to a range of bodies.  She felt it important, however, to get something together.  

In relation to the comment about an accredited syllabus, the speaker understood courses or syllabuses were only accredited in the absence of an endorsed training package.  Once a training package is endorsed the training is based on that and not a syllabus. 

The training package is the package he understood was referred to by the previous speaker who had chosen to call it a ‘syllabus.’ It serves as a guide for development of specific training programs. 

In relation to involvement in development of the training package, as a professional association it is important to become involved.  ALIA became part of the Museums and Library Training Package and now it is under review, it has been invited to be involved. 

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6. Articulation of courses should be addressed in a comprehensive way.  People completing VET courses want an assured pathway into tertiary courses.  Both entry qualification for courses and advanced standing in them need to be addressed.  

Both the university sector and the vocational education sector are asked to teach key generic skills or competencies such as communication, problem solving, understanding of new technologies, supervisory leadership ability, and team-work.  The goals of education are the same, but at differing levels.

Partnerships with universities have been based on submissions and programs going through academic committees.  There is an intention by government to streamline that process. 

A higher education educator could not see that a university would go outside to other educational institutions as it is not worth the time. 

RTOs hold the same accreditation as TAFE institutes.  He saw a need to determine what will happen to professionals in two years when they finish an Advanced Diploma and say to a university ‘I want to enrol in a Master’s’ and what credit they will get. There is a push by State and Federal providers to ensure all providers have articulation that is set. How can the education sector and the RM profession work with that process? 

A university educator felt that if one has a student who has done Certificate III or IV they might or might not get up to 18 months credit, and there is articulation through school boards and academic boards and so on.  Her university has recognition of prior learning that only allows entrance into a program but does not grant credit within a program. 

The issue is one with the individual university and the course within it that the articulation decision is made.  If an RTO approached Monash and said it is offering an Advanced Diploma in this field, will you give 12 months of a bachelor’s degree in one that has a recordkeeping parts in it, we would determine how much credit would be given, but the problem is if the recordkeeping component of the program is an elective component rather than a core part of the degree.  It is easier to do an articulation between an Associate Diploma or Graduate or Masters Degree where you cannot give people credit, but recognise it is equivalent to, say, a graduate degree.  

What advantage or disadvantage would it make through the articulation process if an association had an accredited VET provider? 

A university educator said there would be none for her organisation.

Another university educator said it was more applicable to the Masters than Undergraduate or Graduate Diploma. 

Each university has its own arrangements for articulation, and they differ.

Another university educator endorsed the process of giving articulation were it to match the whole course in order to get a year, and where it is reduced to matching unit for unit it is based on documentation the student can get from the provider.

When her university started articulating TAFE students with Diplomas, it had the support of the Australian Vice-Chancellors Council who said you could grant up to a year accreditation. She noted the need for a link back to universities to say this is what we will give you or up to this amount.

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There have been small numbers applying for articulation in the past because diplomas or advanced diplomas were not offered.  As the new qualifications are awarded, one will see a large increase in the numbers. 

7. Professional associations must address how they are going to support the VET sector.  This will form part of the discussions between the ASA and RMAA and educators outlined in the Professional Associations section above.

The only role is to write the Training Package support materials, and someone has to pay for that.  The competency framework is highly political.  She suggested the professional outcomes of the second round are not as good as from the first round.  The only place one can have input is in developing materials based on the framework already provided. 

8. The role of the private non-VET sector needs to be understood as part of the whole education/training area, particularly in relation to specific skill training, CPD and brokerage of cross sectoral training.

It was suggested that a listing be made of people already providing private training that do not already fit into the market.  Is there a role for a different type of list as well, not necessarily endorsing outcomes? 

It was noted that the better use of non VET training resources has been ignored.  There remains much to be explored here.   

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Some issues cutting across stakeholder groups were also raised in discussion.  These included.

9. The need to identify exactly what is the body of domain-specific professional knowledge that recordkeepers require and that should form the content of courses.  How this will be addressed will form part of the discussions between the ASA and RMAA and educators outlined in the Professional Associations section above.

10. The need for an inclusive framework for the structure of the profession.  There needs to be a clear understanding of the nature of the profession, the qualifications and skills required and with clear pathways, related to education, which allow and equip people to move between different roles and areas within the profession.

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Additional issues

1. Identifying employers’ needs - the difference between employers’ perceptions of their needs and what they ask for. 

A point that came through very clearly is that employers are looking for transferable skills. They are not that concerned about recordkeeping skills, but transferable skills and the non-core recordkeeping skills.

Agreed.  It comes back to the practical experience of people who know their way around a management recordkeeping program but also the need to be business street-wise and work within a business environment. 

Queried whether it was that they do not specify discipline specific stuff because they assume it is embodied in a practitioner.  She suggested that was the case.  The business of being ‘business savvy’ is generic across the field of being a good employee.  Skills such as answering the telephone can be built into an assessment thing, but it is a question of being realistic what programs at graduate and post graduate level can include.

The issue is not unique to this group.  Each time one evaluates a course, employers in focus groups always say they want what universities call ‘graduate attributes’ which are not specific to any one discipline at any university.  Certainly under graduate programs are meant to produce graduates who have those attributes as well as discipline and knowledge of all the knowledge processes.  They are not very strongly emphasised within the university control system. 

It is relevant to those in New Zealand. When they recruit they look for the general graduate attributes and then look at further ‘on top’ education to enhance the RM and archives skills.  Some people do not have some of the more sought after employer requirements such as analytical thinking at a higher level.  

In supporting the comments about employers’ desire for graduate attributes there are a number of models of what other Associations are doing.  The Australian Human Resources Institute recommends that employers enrol their new graduate employees in a Diploma of HR and other behavioural qualifications to give them support on the job to help them build their business savvy qualities.  

Having done a similar study to that of Curtin looking at job descriptions over a five-year period, and by far and away the majority of employers went for 3-4 characteristics that were very general.  Some were personality attributes such as liking people to have ‘sparkling personalities.’  A lot was also general background knowledge.  At the bottom was professional core stuff such as knowing how to work with a database.  Secondly, in relation to graduate attributes, at the university of South Australia they try to ensure students not only have them, but also have practical proof of these things. Graduate attributes are tied in with assessed work.

Curtin’s under graduate degree has six core units that are communication skills based.

Employers have a responsibility for workplace culture, too.  Street-wise things develop in the context of the workplace, and she doubted employers could necessarily ‘buy’ those things in. 

From the employer’s point of view, he is looking at applicants across the whole range of people he employs from the top to the bottom. The employer therefore becomes very selective in advertising for staff.  If one is looking for management positions, you look for an academic level person, but further down the chain you look for someone you can develop, and look for more of the VET sort of training.  A lot of communication training at Records Solutions is developed in the company’s customer service area because one cannot pull it off a university or VET shelf. 

In terms of the politics of higher education, there are people trying to work on the maintenance of programs in extraordinarily changing circumstances and she did not think the profession understood this.  It needs to understand the paradigms in which one is trying to develop and deliver programs.  Determining what can be done to support the existing programs would be far more useful than to say employers want communication skills.  

Both the university sector and the vocational education sector are asked to teach key generic skills or competencies such as communication, problem solving, understanding of new technologies, supervisory leadership ability, and teamwork.  The goals of education are the same, but at differing levels. One of the things that happened with the implementation of the old recordkeeping standards into the new Training Package is that employers were asked what they needed with students coming into the vocational sector, and 5,000 employers commented; so there is a lot of value in looking at what employers want from students in the vocational area which may impact on universities.

2. How can the recordkeeping industry support its educators?

There are two points: send the people who work for you to courses, and get them educated.  Secondly, a dialogue be commenced between employers and educators, for instance on needs that are exposed through the course review committees. 

Agreed. Also felt that employers have to support employees in doing courses but that educators or the profession or a combination of both could speak to other professional bodies. There are possibly 100 school archives around Australia for instance and dialogue with the Headmaster Association or some other higher professional body could be beneficial.  It would be more constructive than talking at an individual basis.

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There are great consultative and quality assurance processes in place and one should not hark back to setting up exclusive committees that just look at a recordkeeping component.  It is going back to the old paradigm to do that.  Within the current paradigm, one is part of a more multi-disciplinary process and, for instance, at Monash there are people from the ACS, library people, information and knowledge management people etc that are being talked to.  

What is the purpose of being there?  Are we making sure our particular interests are being served?  She asked for an explanation of what the committees do.

At Monash there has been a review of the under-graduate program, which has a record keeping specialisation in it. The review involves focus groups of people providing feedback on what is happening.  If the employers and professional associations in those focus groups say this is relevant education to them it makes it easier to sustain those units, which are elective units.  

The society needs to get clear what the role of an ASA person on such a committee would be versus the accreditation process.  What if the committee says the courses are great, but the accreditation process considers they are repetitive? 

I need to discover where the most effective involvement will be, and once found, will support that sector. 

3. The viability of pursuing the concept of recordkeeping brokers to put together packages to meet training needs of individual employers and sectors of the industry.

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It was noted that Transport & Distribution Industry Training Australia is the peak body and accredits RTOs under a similar model.  They talk to the industry about what training companies can provide to meet their needs and have a fee for service to develop course content and assist training companies to improve the quality of education they provide. 

Could this apply to the records industry?

It depends how serious one is.

What about an independent body?

It has to be recognised that all of those present at this Forum have vested interests.  Private providers are there to make money, as are universities, but there is a larger role there.  Professional associations also have a large role but also need to make money.  Professional associations are voluntary and more neutral in terms of a brokerage role but unlikely to do it because they are voluntary.   Is there a way of constructing an independent model to operate in a brokerage role?

While supporting the Transport Industry model it must be acknowledged that the State and Federal governments are thinking twice about funding industry training advisory bodies.  It remains viable for the building industry where a training levy makes the ITAB self-supporting. 

In NSW the Business Services ITAB helped his organisation develop a traineeship.  The State Education Department then decided to fund its continuation. 

Where would brokering stop and market control start?  A lot of potential students on the eastern seaboard are interested in doing distance education courses in the west and training providers who want to develop training in the far north and she was not sure where the boundaries would be. 

The advantage of getting a list of what is available, and what the profession thinks of those offerings seems to have a lot to offer.  

The framework for VET assessment is generic and about process and has nothing to do with the content. Maybe the professional associations have a role in monitoring that.  In terms of a brokerage role, she queried whether the competitive realities could be transcended to do these things. 

4. A separate body to assess the status of individual professionals in recordkeeping.

Another model to consider is ARMA which goes through a separate body to accredit its members.  The RMAA provides a status upgrade process, the ASA assesses applications for professional membership applying its own membership criteria, and then there is course accreditation and RTOs, and maybe the time is right to establish an independent body where everyone goes to get professional status upgrades. 

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The function of the Institute for Certified Records Managers is to provide materials that test practicing professionals’ knowledge.  The role is not to teach, but to make sure people in fact know their stuff, similar to what professional engineers have.  It is not a matter of how you get to that point. The end depends on whether you pass the exams and keep you knowledge fresh. 

Professional association membership is different from arranging training. We cannot afford to add yet another layer to the processes we follow to process membership applications. Whatever we do must be ‘mean and lean’ and have the assurance that all would collaborate with it.

Associations struggle with recognising courses but we have seen how they can be much more efficient using structures developed in quality assurance. To move the debate from recognising courses one could count on a couple of hands if you included the VET sector, to the idea that an organisation would find it easier to assess the individual attainment of 700 or 800 individuals raises doubts, particularly over available resources.

Responding to the resource issue it must be acknowledged that there is a limit to what a professional association can do. He was not convinced there is a critical mass in Australia to need to consider it further.  

COFSTA represents constituent organisations. If it was willing to assist, the resulting scheme would be government funded. 

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